Comments on: designing good user interfaces (2 – Removing Useless Clutter) http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/ Davide Bettio's weblog Thu, 07 Jul 2011 07:49:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: non7top http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7094 non7top Wed, 04 Nov 2009 07:17:55 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7094 IMO this example fails again. The first thing to remove here is a tab widget but not the groupbox. Better option here would be to have two groupboxes and no tabs at all. And second thing is that you will probably add more options (widgets) on this tab, and then you will still need to add the groupbox, so why not have it from beginning? IMO this example fails again. The first thing to remove here is a tab widget but not the groupbox. Better option here would be to have two groupboxes and no tabs at all. And second thing is that you will probably add more options (widgets) on this tab, and then you will still need to add the groupbox, so why not have it from beginning?

]]> By: Christoph http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7083 Christoph Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:59:39 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7083 While your second screen shot remove the nested border, it also removes the group with its header altogether. QGroupBox is not only about visualizing groups, but also an accessibility feature. An application programmer should not work around the visualization made by the style. On the other hand, Qt's QGroupBox offers a "flat" mode, with the borders removed. With Skulpture, for example, both modes look identical. While your second screen shot remove the nested border, it also removes the group with its header altogether. QGroupBox is not only about visualizing groups, but also an accessibility feature. An application programmer should not work around the visualization made by the style.

On the other hand, Qt’s QGroupBox offers a “flat” mode, with the borders removed. With Skulpture, for example, both modes look identical.

]]> By: maninalift http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7070 maninalift Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:26:59 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7070 Also I have to say I think I agree with dherman. Although I see the point I actually think I can read and interpret the second screen shot more quickly. It is probably the case though that the uglyness of the second screenshot should be solved by the widget theme, not by the application UI inserting a groupbox where there are no groups to separate. Also I have to say I think I agree with dherman. Although I see the point I actually think I can read and interpret the second screen shot more quickly. It is probably the case though that the uglyness of the second screenshot should be solved by the widget theme, not by the application UI inserting a groupbox where there are no groups to separate.

]]> By: maninalift http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7069 maninalift Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:22:10 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7069 I agree that the example posted by tomaz is much clearer although it's an issue for the widget style implementation rather than the application interface design. I agree that the example posted by tomaz is much clearer although it’s an issue for the widget style implementation rather than the application interface design.

]]> By: Peter http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7056 Peter Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:47:38 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7056 The use of group-boxes is my most hate UI "feature" in KDE. Useless borders around everything - so annoying. The use of group-boxes is my most hate UI “feature” in KDE. Useless borders around everything – so annoying.

]]> By: dherman http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7024 dherman Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:33:07 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7024 Another thing (don't get me wrong, I like tabs), I noticed that the selected tab is highlighted as I would expect, but that highlighting fades into the background color of the "Working" (Group Box) area. I would normally conclude that the highlighted tab is not really associated with the options in the lower part of the frame. The second, "Less clutter" example also "feels" more crowded to me since all of the radio buttons have moved up and left a large unused space below. All in all the only thing I like more about the second "Less Clutter" example is the removal of the title. I assume this title would actually appear in the tabs name. Which leads to the issue of tab size. See ya Another thing (don’t get me wrong, I like tabs),

I noticed that the selected tab is highlighted as I would expect, but that highlighting fades into the background color of the “Working” (Group Box) area. I would normally conclude that the highlighted tab is not really associated with the options in the lower part of the frame.

The second, “Less clutter” example also “feels” more crowded to me since all of the radio buttons have moved up and left a large unused space below.

All in all the only thing I like more about the second “Less Clutter” example is the removal of the title. I assume this title would actually appear in the tabs name. Which leads to the issue of tab size.

See ya

]]> By: dherman http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7019 dherman Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:27:05 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7019 I have to agree w/ tomaz, the example he (?) provided has a better separation of elements as well as providing better clues to what funcyion has actually been selected. The contrast between the 2 tabs in your (Davide's) example is not enough to show me instantly which tab I am working with. It even takes a person w/ limited eyesight a moment to recognize that the 2 tabs are separate elements. Also (I don't know if this is due to the image or some other variable) the fonts in tomaz's example stand out clearly and are easily readable. The fonts in your (Davide's) examples are not as sharp and crisp, causing further effort from the user. Davide, I really appreciate the effort you are making to help people think about usability as a key part of the interface Obviously you are working with Ideas that are tied closely to the "Oxygen" look, (Which I think is quite pretty) but if usability is to be improved then the basic ideas behind the interface also need to be explored. Thanks I have to agree w/ tomaz, the example he (?) provided has a better separation of elements as well as providing better clues to what funcyion has actually been selected.

The contrast between the 2 tabs in your (Davide’s) example is not enough to show me instantly which tab I am working with. It even takes a person w/ limited eyesight a moment to recognize that the 2 tabs are separate elements.

Also (I don’t know if this is due to the image or some other variable) the fonts in tomaz’s example stand out clearly and are easily readable. The fonts in your (Davide’s) examples are not as sharp and crisp, causing further effort from the user.

Davide, I really appreciate the effort you are making to help people think about usability as a key part of the interface

Obviously you are working with Ideas that are tied closely to the “Oxygen” look, (Which I think is quite pretty) but if usability is to be improved then the basic ideas behind the interface also need to be explored.

Thanks

]]> By: KDE user from Poland http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7016 KDE user from Poland Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:56:30 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7016 Keep those posts coming :) I like them a lot, i've learned sth from previous ones ;] Keep those posts coming :) I like them a lot, i’ve learned sth from previous ones ;]

]]> By: tomaz http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7010 tomaz Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:00:09 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7010 Actually, for me it's still unusable because of the 2 lines , the first from the dialog and the second by the tab widget. http://tinyurl.com/3cu3zw feels a bit better because it doesn't get of the widget, but feels inside of it. Actually, for me it’s still unusable because of the 2 lines , the first from the dialog and the second by the tab widget.
http://tinyurl.com/3cu3zw feels a bit better because it doesn’t get of the widget, but feels inside of it.

]]> By: buscher http://blog.uninstall.it/2009/11/02/designing-good-user-interfaces-2-removing-useless-clutter/comment-page-1/#comment-7009 buscher Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:41:04 +0000 http://blog.uninstall.it/?p=281#comment-7009 Hi Davide, really nice posts! But I would like to hear more about tab usability, I have a highly complex tab in tab dialog and don't know how so simplify it. Maybe there is a general rule that I just overlooked, I just know that it can't stay like this :) Hi Davide, really nice posts!
But I would like to hear more about tab usability, I have a highly complex tab in tab dialog and don’t know how so simplify it. Maybe there is a general rule that I just overlooked, I just know that it can’t stay like this :)

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